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GTO_VR4
EVDO User
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 52
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 Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:14 am Post subject: So when do we expect EVDO REV B to show up? |
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Is it comming anytime soon?
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Fox McCloud
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 02 Dec 2006
Posts: 618
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:05 am Post subject: |
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Sadly, I don't think so: it appears that Sprint is going to skip EVDO Revision B and jump straight into WiMAX; a big mistake, if you ask me; EVDO Revision B does not require hardware upgrades to a tower, WiMAX does.
Like I said, it's a shame; yeah, WiMAX will be faster, but it's going to take forever for it to reach the penetration that EVDO Revision A has. |
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Fl00d_Pr0z
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 218
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| Rev A isn't even nationwide yet... |
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xenophon
EVDO Addict
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 2003
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:28 am Post subject: |
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Problem with RevB/C is that it would put even more load on celltowers and use more tight spectrum. Verizon appears to be hitting a peak as it is (5GB/month limit). WiMAX will be targeted for laptop users and consumer devices while EVDO will still be used for phones. Phones don't really need >1Mbps and power users who tether will still be able to get WiMAX phones.
But yeah, will take a while for WiMAX to hit same coverage as EVDO. RevA will still be a decent backup to WiMAX.
If Sprint/Verizon do upgrade DO, I'd think they would wait for RevC. But Verizon probably wants some return on their existing investment and examine options while Sprint is targeting WiMAX to compete with wired and grow data to a variety of consumer devices. WiMAX is cheaper to rollout globally and is specifically designed for long distance data (CDMA is primarily designed for voice).
The world might have more WiMAX than cell-based broadband in 5+ years. Cell-based data will still have its place for a long time, but not carry the bulk of mobile data that it does now. IMO.
If/when WiMAX penetration is as good as voice, perhaps VoIPMAX will replace cellbased voice in the end. |
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n6gn
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| Fox McCloud wrote: | Sadly, I don't think so: it appears that Sprint is going to skip EVDO Revision B and jump straight into WiMAX; a big mistake, if you ask me; EVDO Revision B does not require hardware upgrades to a tower, WiMAX does.
Like I said, it's a shame; yeah, WiMAX will be faster, but it's going to take forever for it to reach the penetration that EVDO Revision A has. |
Building out high rate coverage of any kind is a big proposition. I'm not sure that Rev B hardware changes are so different from WiMAX - both require adding new RF carriers. Seems to me that this is at least a site upgrade if not a tower upgrade. WiMAX will no doubt require additional antennas and duplexers but if you have to make major changes in the radios anyway, climbing the tower as well doesn't seem to be that much of an extra step. OTOH, I've never installed either for a cell site so maybe I'm missing something (zoning restrictions maybe?)
Full 3G+/4G rollout is a big deal.
n6gn |
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evdoman
EVDO User
Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 68
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| What is the latest outlook here? With WiMax still all talk and no action and LTE rollouts still far off (and intended to be layered on top of the existing EvDO networks anyway), is there any news or at least suspicion that RevB will be used in San Diego, DC, or any of the other initial markets? WIth the 5GB limit in place, backhauling shouldnt be much of an issue... people would just use their quota more qucikly (heavy users). |
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Mackieman
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 490
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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As I understand it, Rev. B is actually channel bonding that doesn't require extra hardware in and of itself. If a carrier wants to support the same number of subscribers on a particular sector, then additional hardware must be added.
Sprint is going for WiMAX and Verizon is going for LTE. I doubt we'll see Rev. B in the real world. |
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evdoman
EVDO User
Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 68
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the info. However, I thought there was recent talk of upgrading to Rev B (albeit slowly - maybe much more slowly than they moved to Rev A and maybe not in all markets) as the LTE buildout occurs. Reason being that LTE is years off and when it is built out, the new netowrk will still utilize EvDO as a fallback, so any upgrades to the EvDO won't be wasted (and for some people, would be more than enough throughput anyway).
Can anyone point to any industry releases or info otherwise that gives some detail in this respect? |
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TallCool1
EVDO Newbie
Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Posts: 2
Location: FL
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| n6gn wrote: | | Fox McCloud wrote: | Sadly, I don't think so: it appears that Sprint is going to skip EVDO Revision B and jump straight into WiMAX; a big mistake, if you ask me; EVDO Revision B does not require hardware upgrades to a tower, WiMAX does.
Like I said, it's a shame; yeah, WiMAX will be faster, but it's going to take forever for it to reach the penetration that EVDO Revision A has. |
Building out high rate coverage of any kind is a big proposition. I'm not sure that Rev B hardware changes are so different from WiMAX - both require adding new RF carriers. Seems to me that this is at least a site upgrade if not a tower upgrade. WiMAX will no doubt require additional antennas and duplexers but if you have to make major changes in the radios anyway, climbing the tower as well doesn't seem to be that much of an extra step. OTOH, I've never installed either for a cell site so maybe I'm missing something (zoning restrictions maybe?)
Full 3G+/4G rollout is a big deal.
n6gn |
Tower changes = $$$ In many cases we have to re-run structural analysis for every change on a tower because of recent updates to governing regs. IE it IS a costly extra step. WiMax equipment costs are lower than EBTS equipment used right now. Plumbing changes are required for either path. Backhaul is the real challenge. Today's DS1 = DS3 tomorrow  |
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waynefoutz
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 219
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: So when do we expect EVDO REV B to show up? |
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| GTO_VR4 wrote: | | Is it comming anytime soon? |
Who cares? So we can hit the 5 gig cap in 2 days instead of 5? Personally they could throttle it down to 1xrtt for all I care. We aren't allowed to do anything but view static web pages anyhow. Watch Youtube for an hour and you've used 1/5 of your monthly allowance. |
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evdoman
EVDO User
Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 68
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:57 am Post subject: Re: So when do we expect EVDO REV B to show up? |
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| waynefoutz wrote: | | GTO_VR4 wrote: | | Is it comming anytime soon? |
Who cares? So we can hit the 5 gig cap in 2 days instead of 5? Personally they could throttle it down to 1xrtt for all I care. We aren't allowed to do anything but view static web pages anyhow. Watch Youtube for an hour and you've used 1/5 of your monthly allowance. |
I care, and I suspect that a lot of others do too. The vast majority of users do not exceed (and in many cases, come even close to) the 5GB level.
In my case, I have two cards to give me 10GB/month. I use about 2GB on low-intensity appliations like email and web browsing. I use 5-7GB for video and large-file downloads. Having a faster connection would enable me to to do everything more quickly.
For the majority of users who don't reach 5GB, the situation would likely be similar. When you use an application that takes 20 seonds to downlod data, it would be superb to cut that down to 5-10 seconds.
I can understand why someone who hits 5GB in, say 20 days, might not care as much. |
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waynefoutz
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 219
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:40 am Post subject: Re: So when do we expect EVDO REV B to show up? |
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| evdoman wrote: | | waynefoutz wrote: | | GTO_VR4 wrote: | | Is it comming anytime soon? |
Who cares? So we can hit the 5 gig cap in 2 days instead of 5? Personally they could throttle it down to 1xrtt for all I care. We aren't allowed to do anything but view static web pages anyhow. Watch Youtube for an hour and you've used 1/5 of your monthly allowance. |
I care, and I suspect that a lot of others do too. The vast majority of users do not exceed (and in many cases, come even close to) the 5GB level.
In my case, I have two cards to give me 10GB/month. I use about 2GB on low-intensity appliations like email and web browsing. I use 5-7GB for video and large-file downloads. Having a faster connection would enable me to to do everything more quickly.
For the majority of users who don't reach 5GB, the situation would likely be similar. When you use an application that takes 20 seonds to downlod data, it would be superb to cut that down to 5-10 seconds.
I can understand why someone who hits 5GB in, say 20 days, might not care as much. |
Well, fair enough. I, however am out on the road 20 days at a time, sometimes even longer. In order to insure I don't hit the limit, I can't download or view video, I can't download all the podcasts I used to listen to. I have to get these from a wi-fi connection. The only thing I can now do is view static 1995 style web pages and the occasional chatroom, (with no voice turned on.) What difference does it make to me if yahoo.com or ebay.com loads in half a second or 2 seconds? None. It doesn't change my life whatsoever.
Instead of upgrading the speed, why not upgrade it so it can have the capacity to let us do what we want with the internet like we could 3 months ago? |
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nschwen
EVDO User
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 62
Location: Hastings, MN
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: So when do we expect EVDO REV B to show up? |
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| waynefoutz wrote: | Well, fair enough. I, however am out on the road 20 days at a time, sometimes even longer. In order to insure I don't hit the limit, I can't download or view video, I can't download all the podcasts I used to listen to. I have to get these from a wi-fi connection. The only thing I can now do is view static 1995 style web pages and the occasional chatroom, (with no voice turned on.) What difference does it make to me if yahoo.com or ebay.com loads in half a second or 2 seconds? None. It doesn't change my life whatsoever.
Instead of upgrading the speed, why not upgrade it so it can have the capacity to let us do what we want with the internet like we could 3 months ago? |
I welcome speed increases. I wonder if the limits you state above are real or perceived? I and my wife use RevA (one account) as our primary internet in our home. This includes heavy online gaming 3+ hours every day, voice chats (Ventrillo) 15-20 hours a week, surfing to loads of very detailed 'current' websites, frequent viewing of YouTube videos, frequent listening to radio 'streams' by my wife (1-2 hours a day), etc. We don't hold back what we want to do at all; we just use it. My monthly total hovers around 2GB, once it hit 3GB. Well, well under the 5GB limit.
I don't doubt that people do hit the limit doing normal, legitimate things, but in my own experience the cap is not the doom and gloom that some report. |
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waynefoutz
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 219
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: So when do we expect EVDO REV B to show up? |
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| nschwen wrote: | | waynefoutz wrote: | Well, fair enough. I, however am out on the road 20 days at a time, sometimes even longer. In order to insure I don't hit the limit, I can't download or view video, I can't download all the podcasts I used to listen to. I have to get these from a wi-fi connection. The only thing I can now do is view static 1995 style web pages and the occasional chatroom, (with no voice turned on.) What difference does it make to me if yahoo.com or ebay.com loads in half a second or 2 seconds? None. It doesn't change my life whatsoever.
Instead of upgrading the speed, why not upgrade it so it can have the capacity to let us do what we want with the internet like we could 3 months ago? |
I welcome speed increases. I wonder if the limits you state above are real or perceived? I and my wife use RevA (one account) as our primary internet in our home. This includes heavy online gaming 3+ hours every day, voice chats (Ventrillo) 15-20 hours a week, surfing to loads of very detailed 'current' websites, frequent viewing of YouTube videos, frequent listening to radio 'streams' by my wife (1-2 hours a day), etc. We don't hold back what we want to do at all; we just use it. My monthly total hovers around 2GB, once it hit 3GB. Well, well under the 5GB limit.
I don't doubt that people do hit the limit doing normal, legitimate things, but in my own experience the cap is not the doom and gloom that some report. |
One hour of streaming video from Hulu or CBS.com is 150-200 megabytes. A full length movie from Hulu is over 400 megabytes. I've used capturing software to save the .flv files on my hard drive so I can view them offline, a practice both sites have blocked me from doing now. Those are flash videos, the same technology youtube is using. A 15 minute youtube clip is around 25 megabytes. At 200 megabytes an hour you are going to burn through a gigabyte fairly quickly. If your EVDO card is your primary connection and you use it 30-31 days a month, your daily ration is roughly 170 megabytes. I don't doubt your honesty, but you are either overstating your use or mistaken about your total.
Anyhow, I digress, because this topic belongs in another thread. The point I was trying to make earlier, is that if Sprint is going to invest in EVDO, why not boost capacity rather than speed so we all can use it without the limits? It seems to me like that would be the wiser investment. |
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nschwen
EVDO User
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 62
Location: Hastings, MN
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. You bring up valid points, downloading a full length movie at 400mb in addition to frequent watching of hour+ YouTube videos would eat at your available total quickly. My personal use of online video is more clips, 10 minute items, vs. more using it as a television or DVD replacement as you describe. Nothing wrong with doing that, though I'm not sure that I'd count that as something your average internet user does. It's not average in circles I run in, but I'm sure it is for others.
My stated usage and monthly totals are quite accurate. I am a former Verizon EVDO user, so watching usage relative to a monthly cap is not new to me; I used to pay very close attention as I didn't want to get cut off. God forbid I have to go back to dialup! But I've found that I and my family can use the internet for all we desire (today) and still fit very very comfortably under the 5GB cap; leaving plenty room for those incidental events (major app patches, etc).
Given that, and to your original point, speed increases, vs. capacity increases are very appealing to me. I'd LOVE to see ping times lowered (I'm a gamer, ping is life!). I'd also love to see throughput increased; as when watching higher quality streaming video today it's not uncommon to outrun the buffer. I know what 'real' broadband is like (Work T3's and friends/family with DSL); and while EVDO beats the pants off what I had, it's still the baby brother solution.
Some might want more capacity and higher monthly caps; others more speed. Neither is wrong, just different usage. I'll point out however that more capacity can be bought today if desired badly enough (a second modem/account), but more speed/throughput is an impossibility today. So that's what I look forward to personally. Be that RevB, WiMax, or ?? |
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