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n6gn
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 439
Location: Northern California
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 Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:55 am Post subject: Anyone considering the Sprint/Samsung AIRRAVE femto-cell? |
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If this product works as well as it may, the product may deserve it's own sub-group. I guess we'll have to wait another couple of weeks to find out. During the wait though, I'm wondering if anyone on this forum is considering or planning on putting in their own femto-cell, either for range extension or better coverage and performance around the house or small campus. It looks like it might be rather like a WiFi access point but compatible with Sprint hardware and with potential for more range
Sprint has a page set up for the product:
http://www.nextel.com/en/services/airave/index.shtml?id9=vanity:airave
but a lot of questions remain, such as What maximum radius will it support? (would it be good for a small ranch or neighborhood or does 5000 sq ft mean it is only usable to <100' in any direction?)
How well does it work on 1xRTT, EV-DO?
Does the hand-off work well when you leave its coverage area?
How much burden does it put on the home DSL or Cable ISP connection?
etc..
n6gn
(I am not a shill for Sprint or the AIRRAVE, I'm just interested!)
Last edited by n6gn on Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:28 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Jim_in_VA
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Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 560
Location: On the Chesapeake Bay, Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:08 am Post subject: |
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Seemingly the only issue is that it requires DSL or Cable broadband. No mention of EVDO as the connection. Which if, of course, the signal is weak it defeats the purpose.
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n6gn
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 439
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| Jim_in_VA wrote: | | Seemingly the only issue is that it requires DSL or Cable broadband. No mention of EVDO as the connection. Which if, of course, the signal is weak it defeats the purpose. |
My interperetation is that it is truly a femto-cell; a small Sprint base station requiring IP backhaul from any broadband interenet connection. The only EVDO is between the handset or data card a user has and the AIRRAVE. In this way, it operates just like a WiFi access point connected to a broadband Interent connection and providing connectivity to one or more user devices.
This would mean that it is able to produce Sprint EVDO/1xRTT coverage in areas that previously had no coverage whatsoever. Sprint is thus taking advantage of some other type of backhaul - user provided - to produce a new or improved coverage area.
If they haven't overly restricted the range, this could be a pretty powerful device for truckstops, coffee shops, libraries, colleges and other similar locales, just as WiFi as.
On the other hand, if they have truly restricted it to 5000 sq ft, implying about 71' maximum distance, the thing is only useful for a single home - maybe.
n6gn |
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Alex
Site Admin
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 2309
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:49 am Post subject: |
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we've been keeping an eye on upstream vendors to see if this is something we can sell/support. so far, no luck.
if we can sell/support it, we'll obviously do a review. |
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dima
EVDO User
Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 98
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:36 am Post subject: |
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I would like to see a future version of this integrated into some kind of a dsl/cable modem gateway (modem/wi-fi router combo) to make a nice all-in-one box that connects to your broadband and takes up only one power outlet.
Sounds like a job for Cradlepoint  |
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Border Target
EVDO User
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone considering the Sprint/Samsung AIRRAVE femto-cell |
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| n6gn wrote: | Sprint has a page set up for the product:
http://www.nextel.com/en/services/airave/index.shtml?id9=vanity:airave
but a lot of questions remain, such as What maximum radius will it support? (would it be good for a small ranch or neighborhood or does 5000 sq ft mean it is only usable to <100' in any direction?)
How well does it work on 1xRTT, EV-DO?
Does the hand-off work well when you leave its coverage area?
How much burden does it put on the home DSL or Cable ISP connection?
etc..
n6gn
(I am not a shill for Sprint or the AIRRAVE, I'm just interested!) |
I was lucky enough to be chosen to test an Airave for my area prior to the roll out. I have a small 1100sq ft home with a full basement and I can connect anywhere in the house without any trouble. Prior to this I had to stand near a window in the kitchen to be able to hold a call and it often dropped. I can't say for absolute certainty how far out it will serve but remember if there is adequate signal, it should trigger a hand off long before you run out of signal from the device. My home has aluminum siding which cages the signal and outside I have signal in the -90dBm to -95dBm so there’s plenty to hand off to.
The last I knew, the Airave does not support EVDO. Any data used on the handset would be 1XRTT. When we were given the documentation on setting up frequencies for hand offs we were instructed not to include EVDO channels. The Airave supports idle hand offs to and from the network. Idle as in your phone is not in a call. The Airave only supports active call hand offs from the Airave to the network. Basically, if you establish a call on the Airave you can go out get in your car and drive off and hand to the normal network. Providing you have adequate coverage and the hand off is set up correctly. Currently you can not hand off a call you made outside the house to inside the house. This is due to hardware limitations and something they are looking to enable sometime in the future.
Setting up the Airave was very easy. I plugged it into my router and it did the rest. There are several LEDs on the front that "blue up" as each of the settings lock up. Off the top of my head there are lights for GPS, System, WAN, Power, and one other that I can’t remember. My unit is able to get a GPS lock without an external antenna but one is provided if needed. The only real issue I can see here is if the customer has something set up with their router that conflicted with the Airave. I haven't looked into how much bandwidth it uses but I have pretty much forgotten I even have it plugged in. I haven't noticed any effect on my internet usage, games, music, downloads etc. (5 meg Charter)
The only thing I haven't gotten use to yet is waiting a second for the tone after I answer my phone. Whenever you place or receive a call that is using the Airave there is a short tone when making or answering a call. My call quality has been great and I'm extremely happy with it. No more mad dashes to the kitchen to answer my phone. |
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n6gn
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 439
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone considering the Sprint/Samsung AIRRAVE femto-cell |
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| Border Target wrote: |
The last I knew, the Airave does not support EVDO.
Setting up the Airave was very easy.
... I have pretty much forgotten I even have it plugged in. |
Thanks much for the early review!
Not having EV-DO seems like a very serious short-fall, though I can understand the difficulties in supporting multiple protocols. I'd think they might be able to add it but it certainly won't be an easy add-on.
I can believe that 1xRTT wouldn't seriously impact your home network. If they only intend to offer voice, then the only reason for requiring a BB connection may be to achieve adequate latency (I presume that trying to use it with a satellite connection would not be likely to work well, if at all).
Perhaps we'll get some insight into coverage radius once they are generally available and someone totally outside of 1xRTT coverage area hooks one up, establishes a call, and walks away from the house.
Thanks again!
n6gn |
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Border Target
EVDO User
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| You can look at the user guide that comes with the Airave from the link posted earlier. It shows that each call requires 40kbps up and 40 kbps down for a max of 120kbps up and 120kbps down with all three connections to the unit in use. |
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n6gn
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 439
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Border Target wrote: | | You can look at the user guide that comes with the Airave from the link posted earlier. It shows that each call requires 40kbps up and 40 kbps down for a max of 120kbps up and 120kbps down with all three connections to the unit in use. |
Yes, I see that on page 11 (hadn't realized the guide was there!) but no reference to latency, as far as I see.
The manual doesn't have much in it but it looks like they've put quite a bit of hardware in there for $99. I see at least:
a 1xRTT base station
GPS receiver
TCP/IP Network Interface (apparantly self-configuring)
Phone user interface (audio confirmation etc)
I hope that it is successful enough that they add EV-DO.
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Alex
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the_rapture
EVDO Newbie
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Front Royal VA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:46 am Post subject: |
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This to me sounds like a way to get free backhaul, I wonder how the DSL, Cable and other providers are going to like Sprint using them for free backhaul because they don't want to put the infrastructure in place to support their users. To cheap to put up cell tower in your area...
Sorry I didn't look at the docs, but does it allow anyone in the area to use it or is there some security to block everyone but your devices?
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n6gn
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 439
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| the_rapture wrote: | This to me sounds like a way to get free backhaul, I wonder how the DSL, Cable and other providers are going to like Sprint using them for free backhaul because they don't want to put the infrastructure in place to support their users. To cheap to put up cell tower in your area...
Sorry I didn't look at the docs, but does it allow anyone in the area to use it or is there some security to block everyone but your devices? |
No question it is a way to get backhaul (and coverage) in areas where no infrastructure exists. However at $250K-$500K per cell site - if they can get by the zoning- it can take a lot of decades to pay back the investment. The problem is essentially the 'last mile problem' and many rural areas in the US might still not have electricity if it hadn't been for the Rural Electrification Act which built out infrastructure where the utilities couldn't afford it.
The user guide indicates that it can be restricted to use only particular phones with an upper limit of 50 to those that are acceptable. Only three calls at a time which limits the maximum burden on the backhaul.
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TallCool1
EVDO Newbie
Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Posts: 2
Location: FL
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone considering the Sprint/Samsung AIRRAVE femto-cell |
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| Border Target wrote: | | When we were given the documentation on setting up frequencies for hand offs we were instructed not to include EVDO channels. |
What are you talking about? |
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n6gn
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 439
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:46 am Post subject: |
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"Where are the raves for Sprint's Airave?"
http://sprintconnection.kansascity.com/?q=node/776
is an article with some performance information on Sprint's AirRave and T-Mobile's femtocell solutions.
The report sounds a bit mixed in general but what I found particularly telling is the difference reported between T-Mobile and Sprint's marketing (or lack thereof).
Does anyone here have any personal experiences to add to this yet?
n6gn |
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phxphun1
EVDO User
Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| n6gn wrote: | "Where are the raves for Sprint's Airave?"
http://sprintconnection.kansascity.com/?q=node/776
is an article with some performance information on Sprint's AirRave and T-Mobile's femtocell solutions.
...
Does anyone here have any personal experiences to add to this yet?
n6gn |
I can't add anything about the Sprint offering, but I have T-Mobile's "HotSpot@Home" service and can comment on some of the differences.
The Sprint device is presumably a tiny "real" cell site, usable with any Sprint phone, while the T-Mobile service routes the calls over WiFi (yes, with transparent handoff). This requires a specially equipped handset, but once you have a WiFi-capble handset, you can use it at ANY WiFi hotspot that is either open or you have the authentication credentials for. It also automatically works at any T-Mobile branded hotspots (Starbucks, Borders, etc).
I think that's more useful. I've used my T-Mobile WiFi phone through my EVDO router - Sprint backhaul. I dunno how happy Sprint would be knowing their EVDO network is carrying T-Mobile voice calls tho.
Oh, and the latency isn't too bad. It's there, but it's not bad enough that you and the person you are talking with start talking over each other. Depending on the connection, of course. Usually when I check it my latency seems to be in the 150-200 range - not too bad.
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